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July 10, 2005 at 17:59:09
Ha.. the e-word. sorry, I got a kick out of that. I think basically what I am trying to get at is that it almost does seem like just because people listen to BM most of them act as though they own it, and I'll explain. I have always had a problem with the fact that BM fans were stereotyped as Satanic, Doom fans stoners, etc. And I have noticed that a lot of BM fans who, as you say "treasure" the music for what it really is, they throw a coniption fit if someone who is "normal" listen's and likes the music. I'm "normal" everyone is if you really think about it. I think it is assanine the fact that people almost act disgusted at the fact that these "normal" people are listening to BM. I feel the more people that listen to it, the more it may grow and progress by them putting there own imput in, and trying to create something better. Although the traditions may be fading, they will always be there. I mean come on, things are a lot different now compared to when Celtic Frost and Hellhammer were around, as far as music, and "feeling" toward the genre.
July 10, 2005 at 16:36:59
I think that veered off course there, the issue of classifying fans as belonging to one subgenre or another is not the point. If being 'open minded' means liking a bunch of different styles and that's somehow superior to liking one, then good for us, I guess I'm open minded as well.

As for genre stereotypes, you're steering by your wake with your classification thing. It's not to say doom begets stoners (hey, for me it was the other way around) and BM kids are always banal and self-indulgent; I'm not classifying fans. It's an indictment on the genre based on a generalization on the fanbase. This is possible thanks to the fanbase being very general, typical, and in many ways similar to the 'normal' people BM sought to avoid. Believe it or not, the dreaded e-word you dropped in the last part is quite relevant to black metal.

July 10, 2005 at 11:33:47
Well.. that pretty much sums up what I was saying.
July 10, 2005 at 04:41:52
Not to be a dick or anything but Excelver you've defended your position and posted four times in this forum alone... Isn't your last post a bit of hypocrisy??? But I do agree that music should be listened to if you identify with it and/or enjoy it... Black metal is no different than any other subgenre in the metal scene to me... All people have misconceptions about metal in general and people who listen to metal have misconceptions about all the different types of metal and the fans of that particular subgenre... I like black metal, I like metalcore, I like death metal, I like thrash metal, and I even like some doom metal... Does this mean that I classify as a bored self-indulgent dork??? Does this classify me as a stoner (doom)??? Does this classify me as a wannabe riding the metalcore wave with teenage screamo posers trying to be metal??? No... I think that classifies me personally as having an open mind to all metal and anyone who classifies fans of one particular subgenre as such is just as bad as the (mostly) ignorant surrounding society that scorns the metal scene in general stereotyping all of us as Satanic and the like... If you have an open enough mind to listen to music that not everyone else is the world is listening to, have an open enough mind not to be an elitist in that genre whatever it may be...
July 10, 2005 at 00:57:57
So if they are content to appreciate the music in itself, why contribute to all the typical messageboard bullshit that only makes black metal fans look like bored, self-induldgent dorks? Why is it so impossible to leave the stupid pissing contests and flame wars alone? I listen to this music because it is real to me. Public internet forums where bored teens log on and demonstrate the banality of their thoughts are not real, and why any intelligent fan would engage in such is beyond me. Then again, lack of intelligent fans is undoubtedly a source of the problem anyway.
July 9, 2005 at 21:18:48
Yeah, I know you wernt mocking me man it's cool. I was joking around too.
July 9, 2005 at 21:18:03
I can somewhat understand what your saying, but, I have to agree with Horfixion that you should listen to it cause you enjoy it and that's all that will matter. I understand that some people are in it for the hype, but still, they listen to black metal cause they like it, and if people didn't like BM, there wouldn't be any to listen to cause no one would want to create it.
July 9, 2005 at 19:37:33
EXCELVER - If you get people to listen to Black Metal you "want it to be the right people for the right reasons?" What are you talking about - "the right people for the right reasons?" I hope the people you're talking about listen to Black Metal because they ENJOY it! It almost appears like you're talking about the Third Reich and totalitarian ideology...most Black Metal enthousiast would simply tell people LIKE you to fuck right people and fuck right reasons?
July 9, 2005 at 18:04:42
Haha, ok that may have been a strange word to use, there is a certain mindset that comes along with it. By discipline I mean that before the internet, you had to be dedicated to this stuff in order to find it. You had to stuff your hard-earned cash into a little envelope and hopefully a month later you would get a package of music along with whatever random flyers the guy had at the moment and maybe a handwritten note scrawled on a scrap of paper. It was elusive. This site exposes underground metal just like other sites, particularly through my involvement, but I make a conscious effort not to play the part of the demogogue in getting people into black metal- if I get people to listen to this music, I want it to be the right people for the right reasons. Braindead was a joke (I wasn't mocking you). If you understand my opposition to the mob problem, then you have the essential idea down.

You signed off there with a comment about 'right' to listen... on one hand, yes, it's silly to tell people want they can and can't listen to, do what thou wilt and all that. That said, black metal was never meant to be a democracy, and people treating it as one are bringing it down to a standardized level. This is fine for the passerbys who think it's cool to dabble in for a couple years and then leave, but for the few true fans it means disowning on principle a scene that once meant something very special to them. Follow?

July 9, 2005 at 16:59:32
Discipline? Why in the world would you need discipline to listen to a band? Music is there to enjoy and to take in, and interpret how you will. If you treasure the music treasure it all you want, let the social parasites do whatever the hell they want. Like I said before, there will always be those people. -If you really think about it, by what your saying, and I may be misunderstanding what your trying to say, this site is made for all of those internet whores. Thats what this site does, it was made so you can easily find out info, and download samples and what-not, and thats great. Thats why I like this site so much, when I want to know what a band sounds like, I get sample, or read about them. -I don't think I'm brain dead... hmm... I'll agree with your mob theory, but I still think that fans, or "attention seekers" if you will, have every right to listen to BM just as much as you or me. (No, The download didn't work for some reason. I don't think I did it correctly cause I was in a hurry.)
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